Longfei-Taijiquan Association of Great Britain

A Profile of Professor Li Deyin - Part 1
Longfei News Letters - Volume 2, Issue 3

The questions were supplied by Simon Watson and Simon Ward.  The translation was carried out by Tarry Yip. I have transcribed the text to the best of my ability. - Richard Watson, Chairman, Longfei Taijiquan Association of Great Britain.

Longfei Question One
Professor Li, can you tell us a little of the impressions left in your memory of your early training in Taijiquan.

Professor Li
There are two distinct recollections I can record. The first is that the art was surrounded by mystery and mystique. The second, the training of Taijiquan was one of the hardest and most difficult things I have experienced in my lifetime.
The reason I say that Taiji was surrounded by mystery is because the training was difficult and therefore it was not very popular. Opinions on the worth and value of Taijiquan was somewhat divided. On the one hand it was claimed that you could pick someone up and discharge them, cause them harm or possible death. A second opinion would claim that Taijiquan, being soft and slow, was quite useless. In those early days when I trained in the park I would be surrounded by curious spectators. The young girls who took an interest in Taiji were too shy to train in public and like myself they were reluctant to train openly in the parks.
Taijiquan prowess was considered akin to catching fish in the water with bare hands.
During my academic studies, a duration of four years, my university colleagues observed me training so it was by coincidence that my Taiji background was discovered. In fact I spent more time playing football! I was also a member of the university's athletics team partaking in field and track events.
Indeed, at this time I was a record holder for hurdle events. I can recall at this time (1960) China was experiencing natural disasters and the population were faced with hunger and starvation. During this period the people were generally too weakened and feeble to practise strenuous excercise and avoided doing so.
When my Taiji background was realised I made the decision to organise for my fellow students a programme of soft and gentle excercises. These excercises represented their introduction to Taijiquan.
In keeping with the mystery of the art it would be quite unusual to own a book or manual of learning on the art. If you owned a book or text on Taijiquan it was considered a treasure and one kept it to oneself. Hence the mystique connected to the art was perpetuated.
My second recollection was how hard and difficult it was to learn. I began my training when I was very young and my teacher was my grandfather "Li Yu-Lin" (1888-1966). Every move he taught me was to be repeated many, many times before another was to be added. To some extent this training programme was forced on me at a very young age. To learn one routine took some eighteen months even when training on a daily basis. So you can understand why I recall my early training as one of the most difficult experiences of my life.Now of course, things are different and practising in the parks and public places is quite common. It is one of many activities practised in the open. Nowadays Taiji is being popularised and practised in groups. This is a departure from the old methods when Taiji was only taught person to person. Popularisation has changed the approach to teaching. Practicising with the family or a group of friends is quite commonplace and is considered a pleasant thing to do.
Previously a training plan would be tailored to suit the individual and each teacher would bring to the instruction his own personal touch. Taiji has moved into a different arena covering health preservation, well being, sport and competition.
This has created a far wider interest and appeal, Taiji has become accessible thoughout China and its appeal is to people from all classes and walks of life. In my lifetime this has made Taijiquan one of the most widely recognised and practised physical activities in Asia.

Longfei Question Two
The modern tendency in Taiji is to develop short forms. How comprehensive are they and do they contain the necessary elements to fully develop our Taiji skills?

Professor Li
Do you refer to the simplified 24 Taijiquan?

Longfei
Not necessarily. All the major styles have choreographed short forms in recent times. Some are to simplify 
transmission. Some are shortened for time limitation in competition.

Professor Li
If we can take as an example the Simplified 24; this was created for several reasons. At its conception in the early 1950s, it was considered impossible to popularise Taijiquan using the traditional methods. To ask a student to practise two or perhaps three hours a day, seven days a week in contemporary society, is not very practical and can be counter productive. 

To bring Taijiquan to the wider audience and to make it a subject for academic study in schools and universities, it was considered necessary to introduce a formal curriculum. A systematic training to guide the learner through beginner, novice, intermediate and advanced stages of transmission.

In the old days of traditional training the instruction was oral on a one to one basis. Each teacher's learning and teaching technique was subject to the understanding of his own teacher's knowledge and his communication skills. It was rather akin to learning a craft skill and the relationship between journeyman and their apprentice. So the geographical vastness and the enormous population of China were also considerations to be examined before standardisation could take place.

For all the foregoing reasons it was felt necessary to prepare a programme of development to bring the study of the art of Taiji more readily to aspiring students. This was the reason behind the creation of Simplified Taijiquan. However the compilation was based in traditional theories, principles and characteristics. It was important for the compilers to base their construction from a traditional base.

The movements were selected from the "Yang Style" as it was considered the most popular and widely practised style. In the traditional Yang Style, depending on how we count more or less of the repetitions, there are 85 or 88 forms. If we discount all repetitions there are only 40 different forms. What the creators did when they compiled Simplified Taijiquan was to select 21 of the more significant postures.

In terms of tradition we cannot claim this to be comprehensive as only half of the movements are represented. For instance, Simplified Taijiquan has only two heel kicks while in Traditional Yang Style there is a greater variety. There is the use of both heel and toe kicks also turning to kick. In my opinion all the elements, principles and characteristics are contained in Simplified Taijiquan provided they are faithfully transmitted.

Watching just a few movements of Taiji will establish the substance of traditional values. To quote a Chinese saying: "The person who knows as soon as they see even a small illustration can tell if it is substantial or insubstantial." In Taijiquan Talu Competition, a 5 to 6 minute demonstration is considered ample time to ascertain the values of a performance.

There is a body of support that 6 minutes is too long and that there is room to shorten competitions. To perform the whole of a traditional routine does not imply that the performance has not compromised the essentials of the practise, whereas if performing a short routine well, it can be seen that we have not compromised on the true content, characteristics and specialities of Taijiquan.

For example, Simon, with your interest in music I do not have to listen for two hours to your guitar playing.

In 5 minutes I can judge whether you have something or nothing at all. As most of the students practising the 24 Simplified Taijiquan would be novice and beginner, to make premature value judgements of the performance would be worthless. At this stage of training when they cannot portray true standards, the performance itself cannot be an indictment of the form. My conclusion is yes, the Simplified Form in movements is not as comprehensive as the traditional form, however the standard of the quality of movement, the principles and characteristics of true Taiji are not compromised. To some extent the question itself is erroneous.

Longfei Question Three
It is very difficult to find a clear definition for the division of Internal and External. Indeed the question "what is an Internal Martial Art" is itself often misunderstood. Can you briefly explain your understanding for the term "Internal."

Professor Li
The first mention of Internal Martial Art was not on the basis of academic enquiry. The reference first arose in a book published by "Zhang Sungxi" who practised "Nei Jia Quan" (Internal Family Fist). Zhang Sungxi claimed he learned this skill from the Taoist monk "Zhang Sanfeng" from Wudang mountain.

Zhang Sungxi is reputed to have challenged and successfully defeated many Shaolin monks. In his biography it is said that he practised Internal Fist and the main emphasis of this art is softness. The emphasis in the practise of Internal Fist is softness and gentleness and the famous remark attributed to this form of Wushu is "comes late but arrives first."

One can compare this with the Shaolin method which supports strength, speed and always attack first. Whilst the biographical reference extolled the virtue of the Internal Fist methods ("Nei Jia Quan") there were implications that Shaolin Fist was inferior, thereby drawing unfavourable comparison. So it was from this era using the biography as source material that the historians recorded the segregation of martial arts. From this period the Wudang System was spoken of as internal and the Shaolin method was seen and referred to as external. So the division became significant for the geographic locations rather than examination of the traditions behind the respective arts.

However, this view is not one that is accepted by the monks from the Shaolin tradition. We must understand that many martial systems came from the Shaolin temple, not just one. Their methods embrace many strong and powerful exercises but also martial techniques that emphasise softness.

No Chinese martial artist would profess to practise external arts for, according to the biographical premise, this would be reducing the status of their art. There is another school of opinion that infers. "Taiji," "Xingyi" and "Bagua" form a trilogy of internal martial arts, that anything outside this family of fighting arts should be considered external. The so called Internal Trio are of course philosophically based in the I Ching. They take their inspiration from Yin and Yang, Wuxing and the Bagua. Those that advocate the theory that any martial arts not embracing the principles of the I Ching cannot be considered Internal Arts.

Of course this premise also has its detractors. It should be pointed out that Yin and Yang, Wuxing (5 Elements), Bagua (8 Trigrams) are all ancient principles from Chinese philosophy and it would be incorrect for the three families to claim the sole rights for the application of the principles to their martial arts.

So the basis of categorising which art is essentially internal or external has no real scientific approval. Martial arts outside of the Internal Trio also use techniques of softness and hardness, the methods employed are initiated by circumstance and the quality of the opponent.Throughout history famous masters have failed to agree as to what philosophy and principles determine internal martial arts.

The great grandmaster of the internal trio, "Sun Lutang," never emphasised the segregation of the internal and external martial arts. There are those who suggest it would be more correct and accurate to define the methods of training into external training or internal training systems.

Traditional Chinese martial arts emphasise the training of the body, mind and Qi. If we consider the Olympics for a moment, the contest is to find the fastest, the strongest, the longest and the highest. By contrast the Chinese martial arts cultivate stillness, quietness and calmness in action. They consider the mind, the heart, the well being of our internal organs. The training embraces the concept of balance between mind, body and harmony of the internal organs. One must use visualisation to balance the body internally and externally, to free the heart and eradicate confusion of the nervous system.

The training to develop the Qi is another important aspect of our martial arts. One must cultivate good breathing habits and coordinate the breathing with the movements; also we have to understand the Yin and Yang energies within your body and secure a balance between them. In traditional Chinese medicine the human body is subject to the fluctuations of the two energy fields that are Yin and Yang. If these two are in balance we experience good health and well being. If they are not coordinated and in harmony, confusion reigns with ill health. Therefore the end result of our martial arts training is to be balanced, coordinated and to harmonise the trainee with nature.
In this Chinese medical philosophy to train for the fastest, longest, strongest and highest will make you fit for the tasks. To be strong and fit does not imply that you are balanced and healthy. Only when balance (Internal and External) is achieved can you gain true good health and well being. A balance to mind, body, internal organs, brain and nervous system. In Japan and China the symbols for health and longevity are the turtle and the crane. They do not associate the virtues of health and longevity with the strong and powerful - for instance the Tiger and Horse.

In conclusion, I would like to say that all Chinese martial arts according to the individual characteristics of the training will place more or less emphasis on the external or the internal. For example, with Chang Quan they combine high jumps with kicks and speed. Whereas with Taiji we place importance to regulate the mind and developing the Qi. I feel that based on this approach a categorisation would be more acceptable to the majority of people. I would also comment that this does not reflect a difference in individual martial arts but rather the approach to training.

Even the Shaolin Traditions look to train the bones and skin externally. Taiji brings our attention to first in the heart/mind then in the body. However these discussions between Chinese martial artists have remained controversial throughout history and have presented an obstacle to the unification of martial arts throughout China.

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